How To Achieve REAL Success With Or Without
Certification – with Darby Weaver
by Mirek Burnejko
This is an interview with Darby Weaver. Darby Weaver is a
Global Network Architect who serves as a Systems Integration Consultant and
Network Planning/Design Engineer for National and International private,
public, and government entities. Darby specializes in Network Design
(LAN/WAN/Data Center/WLAN) Routing and Switching, Security, and Wireless
Technologies.
Darby is certified as a CCNP, CCDP,
CCSP, CCNP Voice/Wireless, MCSE+I, MCSA/E + Security/Messaging, Sniffer
Certified Master, ITILv2, and a number of other certifications. He has also
passed the CCIE Routing and Switching and the CCIE Security Written
certifications. He has served as a SME for the CCNP/CCIE Wireless Written Exam
certifications and has served as a CCIE Routing and Switching Version 4 Lab
Prototype tester for Cisco and Pearson VUE. He has been certified on a variety
of Cisco certifications since 2000.
Darby is prolific writer of
exhaustive technical and non-technical articles all over the Internet and
serves or has served as a Moderator or Admin of several online communities over
the last 11+ years or so, including the
In this interview you will find:
- How to achieve true CCIE level expertise?
- Does CCIE certification has big value on the job
market?
- How to get a $25-35k raise using proven techniques?
Miroslaw Burnejko: Darby, it is a pleasure to have you here in IT Certification Master. You are a legend in the networking industry. Before we get started, tell me about your beginnings in the IT industry.
Darby Weaver: I received my first
computer – a TSR-80 back in 1983 it seems to me. I learned how to program
colors and sounds, I then learned to backup on a tape recorder type of device…
Then I put it up on a dresser for good. My house burned to the ground and my
first computer went up in smoke.
I didn’t miss it.
I used computers a time or two but
surely not three while in high school. I didn’t miss em. I then went into the
US Navy and somehow found myself in the “Help Desk” which incidentally used a
lot of 286/386 computers. So I had to learn how to use them. Got another job
when I had to have a surgery and I still didn’t miss em. I took over a job
where I was responsible for the Disaster Management Division and I was also
responsible for the Transient Unit at Mayport. I got a little time on some more
PCs and got to work on one of the world’s first Microsoft Windows 3.11 Networks
in the world. Time flies. I managed to find myself working at ADP in Orlando
before I got out of the US Navy and I was introduced to Novell Networking and
PC Repair. Got some good advice and I bought my own first PC in about February
of 1994 after I left the US Navy.
I spent a year playing some games
and going to classes for more computer topics. I spent another couple of years
taking computer classes at night and at college as courses.
In 1995, I started working for
“FREE” at a place called Computer Depot and did this for 3 months. I quit
and the owner hunted me down and found an e-mail I had back in 1995 (I had
e-mail – both from the college and the local user group as I recall –
pine/trumpet winsock/chameleon/etc. – he hired me back this time paying me
minimum wage. I really didn’t need the money so I worked with him for some 3+
months and then… IT happened!!!
I got my first network gig. I had
started consulting. I had a job copying floppy disks and made a quick $300-400
just doing that at about $15 per hour or so and then got the Lantastic Network
contract with a local Doctor’s Office for $35.00 per half hour (just like
that). I was in. I made some $3000-4000 or so my first month and felt extremely
guilty earning money for helping with a $6 mouse… Seriously!!! So then I
stopped and let my client go. I like to work for my money.
I started repairing computers,
installing operating systems, selling PCs (new or used), recovering hard
drives, low-level formatting to recover bad sectors, compressing/uncompressing
hard drives, modem setup, and virus removal, etc. Data recovery was my thing
and it paid well too. Life was good. I earned over 400+ customers and quite a
few local small businesses.
I had some networks here and there
and while most were successful, I learned TCP/IP the hard way and even had to
refund one guy. Seriously – I couldn’t figure out the problem and deliver the
solution fast enough. I bought some $500.00 on books and still no cigar. Let’s
face it Windows 95 books were not the place to learn IP easily or completely
for that matter. At least not solo like I was trying back then. I refunded the
man’s business and took the hit. I learned. I took my gear and went home and
mastered setting up networks. That was it. I was in networking now.
I spent the next three years enjoying setting up the TCP/IP Stack up in DoS and juggling memory with NE2000 NIC Drivers, etc. I got experienced in Windows 95, NT Workstation, NT Server, Lantastic (then my own network), and Novell (various versions). Life was good and promised to get better.
By 1998-9, I was buying Cisco CCIE
Books and wanting to know more of those hieroglyphics that defied
understanding.
In 2000, I studied Cisco and in 3 weeks or so, I was a CCNA. I took my CCNA and found a project with the American Red Cross of Central Florida and setup 4 networks and rebuilt the Microsoft Network for free but still earned some $17,000 or so for the project deploying 4 1600/1700 routers.
Amazing!!! I used Bridges, Routers,
and Switches and made it happen – Thanks Bruce Caslow and Val!!! So much for
being brief on this one… Let’s move on…
MB: Inspiring story. Let’s talk
about certifications. What was your the first and what was your last one?
DW: My first certification exam I
attempted was IBM’s Networking Essentials – I failed it. I failed because of
SNA. I just didn’t know it. I aced everything else. I worked it every day and
was the Go-To guy for it at work within my team for Network Support. I took the
first class from the University of Phoenix for the Microsoft Networking
Essentials and passed it !!! I learned about using Transcender Exam
Simulators. Funding died for the program – I got left in the lurch and I had to
complete the MCSE all on my own. I found Exam Cram by Ed Tittel. I was in!!! By
the time I passed Microsoft NT 4.0 on a Friday, I landed my first Network
Administrator job that Monday. I was in. I was also a bit of a Y2K Consultant.
It was February of 1999 and I was being billed out at $1600 per day plus
expenses + 20%. My side jobs were netting me about $1000-3000 per day at the
time. Not every day but hey… Set up a 3-person network over a day or two and
make $5k… Setup a 10-person greenfield network and earn another $10-12k, and 4
Routers and earn some $16-17k, and let’s not forget just working on small
networks for some $12k to fix security issues and ensure the integrity of some
20 computers, MS Exchange, Firewall, etc. Just a few examples… I’ve worked
larger campus network on the side too… say 3000 users and charge something in
the neighborhood of $8-12k and have my client bill the customer around $20k for
the same job over say a month or so – mostly analysis… and reports.
My last certification was not one
but two exams – I took the CCNP Troubleshooting Exam and the CCIE Routing
and Switching Exam at Cisco Live 2010 in Las Vegas and passed both. Just
like that. I spent about 4 hours troubleshooting the CCNA Packet Tracer Labs
and they were a lot like the CCNP TSHOOT to me as I recall. It helped me warm
up. I took the two exams during the brief lunch period and made them look easy.
They updated a ton of my other Cisco certifications. I just can’t beat that.
The CCIE RS Written was my freebie exam. I paid for the TSHOOT as I recall.
MB: You write a lot about CCIE
topics, but you don’t have the CCIE certification. You also attended many CCIE
boot camps. Can you share some details why you don’t need/want a CCIE
certification?
DW: Hmm…. No one ever said I did not
want or need a CCIE Certification. I never said that at all. Just the opposite,
the CCIE Certification complements my skills, experiences, education, and
certification. There’s no doubt about it, not even a little bit.
I said I was not willing to lose my integrity
by just simply cheating the CCIE RS Lab – since I actually want to beat it and
not cheat it. Not an easy task by the way. It’s just not. Today, people use
CCIECERT and tell about it in their blogs… It’s not considered cheating any
more I suppose… I guess the philosophy is a pass is a pass and any CCIE is
equal to any other CCIE.
I work with at least 6 CCIE’s on my
immediate team and many others daily. Literally hundreds of other CCIEs hired
by the same employer and not even a Cisco Gold Partner either. No one looks
down on me or doubts my technical acumen at least not that I know of. I work
pretty hard and persistently to be in this field and anyone who works with me
knows it. I’m paid on the same scale and in the same range as each CCIE and in
some cases – maybe more – who knows?
I get a lot of offers.
I write CCIE Materials for Vendors, review Materials for
Vendors, write CCNA/CCNP/CCIE Exam questions for the Drake exams for more than
one track from multiple testing providers (think about that for a moment). I
was invited to the Prototype of the CCIE v4 or v3 or version something before
the OEQ were announced. I know how to procure lab seats when there are none for
most other folks… The CCIE Program Managers know my name, so do the proctors,
they seem happy to meet me when we meet. I’ve shared conversations with the
guys who develop the CCIE Labs, the CCDE, and the CCAr before.
I’m probably the only person to very
get kicked off of Groupstudy.com at least 3 times and
the only person whose posts were rooted out and deleted for a couple of years
at one time over comments that were not deemed healthy to a budding Cisco 360
Program (which I actually like very much by the way). Apparently some people
thought my written words were very loud in the CCIE Community.
Check it out. I hold more
endorsements than the majority of the CCIE Trainers on this little planet and
you’ll be hard pressed to even find a CCIE with as many as 7 CCIE titles
holding as many endorsements as I. Check it out and look it up. That may change
since I noticed it, but you heard it here first. Strange but true!
Wonder why that it?
Umm… I guess I could add that I am
currently engaged with a small team in writing the exam questions for an entire
CCNP Specialty track and was engaged to write the CCNP RS track’s exam
questions as well. If I write the questions in the various exams… Does it
matter if I still take the exam? Maybe I need to make sure I understand the
other team members’ questions…
MB: You work as a network
consultant. Do clients require from you some certifications?
DW: Do you have Deja Vu? I just got
asked today to demonstrate some of my credentials for a client, none other than
Microsoft itself for a large network project I’m the lead network planning
engineer/systems integration consultant for.
I also got asked this by a training
company I was solicited to write their entire CCNA/CCNP curriculum for… And
yesterday a recruiter who was referred to me to become the Director of a CCIE
Gold Partner and help build their brand also asked how it is I became so well
known and respected. He even asked me if I even had to interview any more… I
still get interviewed… sometimes…
No kidding.
Sometimes not. I get a lot of referrals by former students, people I’ve helped
and people I’ve worked with in the trenches. You get what you pay for. So to
answer the question… IT depends…
MB: I know you work with CCIEs and
other certified experts, but sometimes they are not real experts. What is your
recommendation to become a real expert? Is CCIE required for that?
DW: A CCIE is a credential, a
benchmark, and quite achievement even when a shortcut is used to attain it. No
doubt.
However, true expertise comes with
time and effort – mostly persistent effort over a period of time with a lot of
sustained energy and positive outlook. It’s kinda like hacking. You try all
options until there are no more – just like hacking.
Back in the day a person became
recognized as an expert by their deeds, hard work, and achievement – even a few
got lucky for one reason or another and were recognized as an expert – some got
motivated and made it so, now they are the experts.
“Persistence will prevail where raw
intellect may not suffice” – Darby Weaver
MB: How about you’re learning
process. You know many vendors and many technologies. What’s your secret?
DW: Whew!!! I like to read. I love
notes. I use question banks that are on either paper or test simulators for
hours at a time – I can master about 50-60 questions on any topic in just one
hour. Simple as that. Got it down to a science. I digest 20 pages of technical
material every hour or so. Got this down to a science too. I then re-read it
casually and a lot of times I’ll thumb the material to be mastered first. I
find after the QA, then reading for mastery, I’m now well versed enough to
suffer the CLI and configuration phase of learning. I use whitepapers and
vendor materials to perform the various designs or exercise I find I want to
perform. No shortcuts.
MB: Do you have a preference for
real or virtual hardware for learning and preparation for certifications?
DW: I love real hardware. I own about 12 racks of Cisco
equipment. I have owned more over the years, a lot more. I’m warming up to
emulators and simulators too. They work for what they are designed for. The IOU
is interesting to say the least and I can hardly wait to meet VIRL. I think my
favorite will always be real equipment – I’m not adverse to virtual but I am
old-fashioned a little bit. SDN may change this for me at some point. Not
today. Hold your horses. I am working with a product called AFM for Active Fabric Manager and am the SME
(Subject Matter Expert) for AFM for a team of consultants on a global basis who
deploy AFM to the Enterprise. It’s a lot of new acronyms for Cisco folks but
hey… We all have to improvise, adapt, and overcome IT.
MB: Do you recommend trying to
achieve the highest certifications from one vendor (Cisco, Juniper) or maybe
trying to diversify our portfolio?
I think there’s an argument for both
options. I know the CCIE is hard to achieve and some never will, so
diversification is probably the best route for most till at least the CCNP
level or so. Then go for a CCIE track for mastery. Enjoy the process – either
way.
Never miss an opportunity to
research an issue or look up a problem you don’t understand.
MB: What is your recommendation for
people who don’t have any experience and want to start their career in the networking
career? Is an entry-level certification a good starting point?
DW: I actually wrote a very well
cited article on the matter and posted it on the Cisco
Learning Network, Linkedin.com,
and my own blog –
it’s called – How CCNA’s Get Hired Without Experience.
I also wrote a article called:
I help people out from time to time
and with startling results – I have many cases of $25-35k raises after using
just a few of my own techniques, and I have a couple that sound like a 6 digit
increase in salary after only a couple of months of working my techniques.
I’m starting to think it may not be
a bad idea to offer a class for folks in our field on how to get a
start/opportunity or how to get that $50k/$100k raise in salary resulting in
maybe up to over a couple of million dollars over a 20-30 year career that may
never be realized otherwise.
Just a thought… but why not? Who wouldn’t want to learn how to make more using the skills each person already has or with some minor upgrade – a CCIE may not be for everyone, however, a $100,000.00 plus job can most certainly be – if one knows what I know about the industry.
Interesting concept – but now you got me
thinking…
No, I’m not a recruiter – not even
close. I recommend one get introduced to for that kind of thing.
MB: The last question. What are your
certification goals?
DW: I’ve been re-taking all of my
Cisco certs about every 2-3 years, whether I need them or not. It’s expensive
and not many would do it, as none have to do it this way today. It’s just me.
But few if any doubt my credentials and expertise – if you don’t have that
problem one test will work. I’m working on my CCIE, of course –
RS/Security/DC/SP/SAN (retired)/DC/CCDE/Wireless and Cisco Certified Architect
– after I get past the CCDE. I keep my lab equipment for each certification and
each level from the CCNA to the CCIE via the CCNP/CCDP.
MB: Thank you so much Darby.
DW: My pleasure – Let me know if I
can be of further service to our community.
[This is part of the Interviews with IT Pros Series]
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